Wallabies coach Joe Schmidt may be a New Zealander who has worked all around the world, but Melbourne – a city that treats Australian rules football as a religion and rugby as a novelty – may be about as foreign as it gets. There on Tuesday, on an unseasonably warm May afternoon, Schmidt smiles widely and nods as he wanders around the home of the Western Bulldogs, taking in what he can of Whitten Oval.
Alongside him is Luke Beveridge, one of the most respected coaches in the AFL, who shares book recommendations and notes on success. “We did talk about the ruck briefly,” Schmidt says. “But the ruck in AFL is – it’s contact, all right – but not quite the same level of contact, and certainly not the same work on the ground.”
Schmidt is in Melbourne to promote July’s second Test between the British and Irish Lions and the Wallabies. He is also there to catch up with his son, who has been living in Melbourne and playing club rugby.
Related: James O’Connor in frame to make shock Wallabies return for Lions series
But he is also there to learn anything he can to beat the Lions. “You’re always looking for ideas,” says Schmidt, who visited football manager Arsene Wenger during the Frenchman’s tenure at Arsenal.
“Not the strategy so much, just around how we try to keep environments positive and keep a growth mindset, those sorts of things,” Schmidt says, adding that he has also analysed successful teams in Gaelic football and hurling. “Obviously, it’s hard to be successful long term in an environment, and I think he’s done a good job here.”
Beveridge won an AFL premiership in 2016. His team is again a top-four contender this season, and although he is unsigned for next season the respected Bulldogs coach said before meeting Schmidt on Tuesday that work on his next contract is “bubbling along nicely.”
For Schmidt, the future is both more certain and more complicated. He agreed to extend his time in the Wallabies job until the middle of next year only last week, as part of Rugby Australia’s transition plan that will see his successor and former Ireland assistant Les Kiss take over for the 2027 home World Cup. “It’s funny, it’s exactly one of the things that Luke and I talked about, how do we deliver in the short term and plan for the long term,” Schmidt says.
The 59-year-old had intended to leave the Wallabies this year and return home to spend time with family. Schmidt’s son in New Zealand has epilepsy and has to manage multiple daily seizures.
But after a promising 2024, a new arrangement with Rugby Australia – including more time working away from the Sydney headquarters and more opportunities for his family to spend time in Australia – helped secure an extension to his Wallabies deal until July 2026, when Kiss will finish his commitments with Queensland Reds.
“The better place we can be in in a year’s time or 18 months’ time, I think the better place we are to continue to grow into the World Cup,” Schmidt says. “So it’s double-edged a little bit: got to get the short-term right with a long-term focus.”
Yet the former schoolteacher is careful to not let rugby consume his life. One of the matters over which he and Beveridge bond is literature. “Sometimes, when there’s so much going on in your head and you’re trying to get to sleep, it’s nice just to have a bit of a buffer between thinking about the game and then have a read of something and switch off,” says Schmidt, who once likened playing rugby to penning a poem.
The pair have both read and enjoyed I Am Pilgrim by Terry Pratchett, a thriller placed by The Guardian in the genre of “plague fiction”. Schmidt says it’s a book that “entirely takes you away” from sport, a page-turner that offers an “easy read”.
“I’m not saying it’s easy in terms of length, because it’s a pretty lengthy novel,” he says. “But that makes it something you can anchor yourself into, and look forward to catching up on, on the action in the book, as opposed to the various actions you’re trying to contain in your head.”
Related: Next Wallabies coach Les Kiss: a mongrel mix of league and union, coach and strategist
Those actions will be on display for the Wallabies – now ranked eight in the world – for their first Test of the year, against ninth-ranked Fiji on 6 July. In addition to the highly anticipated Lions series, 2025 provides an opportunity to improve Australia’s standing ahead of seedings for the World Cup, and reverse a slide that saw the two-time World Cup winners slip to a ranking of 10th.
In discussing his efforts to improve Australia’s fortunes, Schmidt could not help but reference another book, Turn the Ship Around! by L. David Marquet. It’s a non-fiction best-seller using the experience of the author on a submarine to offer a guide for turning followers into leaders.
Schmidt says although he knows Kiss well and the pair will be in regular contact, transition always offer challenges, “because there’s always going to be things that are different, and you want to pick up all the differences that are positive,” he says. “And leave behind a few of the things that aren’t.”
Wallabies coach Joe Schmidt may be a New Zealander who has worked all around the world, but Melbourne – a city that treats Australian rules football as a religion and rugby as a novelty – may be about as foreign as it gets. There on Tuesday, on an unseasonably warm May afternoon, Schmidt smiles widely and nods as he wanders around the home of the Western Bulldogs, taking in what he can of Whitten Oval.
Alongside him is Luke Beveridge, one of the most respected coaches in the AFL, who shares book recommendations and notes on success. “We did talk about the ruck briefly,” Schmidt says. “But the ruck in AFL is – it’s contact, all right – but not quite the same level of contact, and certainly not the same work on the ground.”
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Schmidt is in Melbourne to promote July’s second Test between the British and Irish Lions and the Wallabies. He is also there to catch up with his son, who has been living in Melbourne and playing club rugby.
Related: James O’Connor in frame to make shock Wallabies return for Lions series
But he is also there to learn anything he can to beat the Lions. “You’re always looking for ideas,” says Schmidt, who visited football manager Arsene Wenger during the Frenchman’s tenure at Arsenal.
“Not the strategy so much, just around how we try to keep environments positive and keep a growth mindset, those sorts of things,” Schmidt says, adding that he has also analysed successful teams in Gaelic football and hurling. “Obviously, it’s hard to be successful long term in an environment, and I think he’s done a good job here.”
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Beveridge won an AFL premiership in 2016. His team is again a top-four contender this season, and although he is unsigned for next season the respected Bulldogs coach said before meeting Schmidt on Tuesday that work on his next contract is “bubbling along nicely.”
For Schmidt, the future is both more certain and more complicated. He agreed to extend his time in the Wallabies job until the middle of next year only last week, as part of Rugby Australia’s transition plan that will see his successor and former Ireland assistant Les Kiss take over for the 2027 home World Cup. “It’s funny, it’s exactly one of the things that Luke and I talked about, how do we deliver in the short term and plan for the long term,” Schmidt says.
The 59-year-old had intended to leave the Wallabies this year and return home to spend time with family. Schmidt’s son in New Zealand has epilepsy and has to manage multiple daily seizures.
But after a promising 2024, a new arrangement with Rugby Australia – including more time working away from the Sydney headquarters and more opportunities for his family to spend time in Australia – helped secure an extension to his Wallabies deal until July 2026, when Kiss will finish his commitments with Queensland Reds.
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“The better place we can be in in a year’s time or 18 months’ time, I think the better place we are to continue to grow into the World Cup,” Schmidt says. “So it’s double-edged a little bit: got to get the short-term right with a long-term focus.”
Yet the former schoolteacher is careful to not let rugby consume his life. One of the matters over which he and Beveridge bond is literature. “Sometimes, when there’s so much going on in your head and you’re trying to get to sleep, it’s nice just to have a bit of a buffer between thinking about the game and then have a read of something and switch off,” says Schmidt, who once likened playing rugby to penning a poem.
The pair have both read and enjoyed I Am Pilgrim by Terry Pratchett, a thriller placed by The Guardian in the genre of “plague fiction”. Schmidt says it’s a book that “entirely takes you away” from sport, a page-turner that offers an “easy read”.
“I’m not saying it’s easy in terms of length, because it’s a pretty lengthy novel,” he says. “But that makes it something you can anchor yourself into, and look forward to catching up on, on the action in the book, as opposed to the various actions you’re trying to contain in your head.”
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Related: Next Wallabies coach Les Kiss: a mongrel mix of league and union, coach and strategist
Those actions will be on display for the Wallabies – now ranked eight in the world – for their first Test of the year, against ninth-ranked Fiji on 6 July. In addition to the highly anticipated Lions series, 2025 provides an opportunity to improve Australia’s standing ahead of seedings for the World Cup, and reverse a slide that saw the two-time World Cup winners slip to a ranking of 10th.
In discussing his efforts to improve Australia’s fortunes, Schmidt could not help but reference another book, Turn the Ship Around! by L. David Marquet. It’s a non-fiction best-seller using the experience of the author on a submarine to offer a guide for turning followers into leaders.
Schmidt says although he knows Kiss well and the pair will be in regular contact, transition always offer challenges, “because there’s always going to be things that are different, and you want to pick up all the differences that are positive,” he says. “And leave behind a few of the things that aren’t.”
